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ninjabones Addict 
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Registration opened up today for Schattenbaum NJMP April 9-10. They will be using Motorsportreg.com this year instead of the mail in system from last year. This will be the debut event for the new and improved #270. |
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Brian Minkin Administrator 
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Registered. Glad they went to online registration. Last year I registered for three of their events by mail and had to register again as my application was lost in the mail. Their new format of one day on each track will be hard on green students. Just when it starts to click off to a new track. Looking forward to returning to NJMP. |
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KennyB Addict
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Thursday - Friday...Damn!!! Don't know how much hookey I can play |
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ninjabones Addict
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KennyB wrote: Thursday - Friday...Damn!!! Hookie from work on a weekday vs. hookie from the wife & kids on the weekends. |
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KennyB Addict
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Either way, you pay a price |
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Sparticus913 Member 
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Hookie from work on a weekday vs. hookie from the wife & kids on the weekends. Works for me! One more 993 in the white group. See you there! |
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delanckc Member 
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Oh the pain!!! I was all set to sign up last night until I checked the family calendar. My daughter has a three day volleyball tournament in Baltimore. We will be staying there Thursday through Saturday night. I'm seriously bumming out. This was going to be my early season replacement for Shenandoah. Kevin |
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MikeKling Member 
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Add one for the Green Group. I'm all registered.
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scwaters Member 
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I'm in. Just waiting for my CC to cool down after season opener (VIR) modifications. Seats, Belts, Brake pads, lines and ducts |
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Mike Thomas #828 Member 
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i cancelled my registration with potomac at summit for apr 11-12 and registered for this instead because i just realized i have that friday (april 10) off....so i'm in baby! |
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scwaters Member
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Wait Listed for Blue |
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ninjabones Addict
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A lot of RTR members are attending this event. Any chance we can try to set up a tech session on April 4???? |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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Count me out as I have a MB restoration to do that weekend. |
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ccm911 Addict 
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MB As in Mercedes Benz? Anything interesting? |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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ccm911 wrote: MB As in Mercedes Benz? Anything interesting? "01" SLK 320. Nothing special.  |
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ccm911 Addict
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Agreed.  |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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ccm911 wrote: Agreed. But as the owner put it "my baby is looking shabby". So to him its his prize automobile. |
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scwaters Member
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Contacted their registrar. I'm waitlisted in Blue due to lack of instructors. |
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Bill Lehman Member
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SC Waters, try contacting their track chair Dan Petchel track@schattenbaum or carsinc@comcast.net . I was at their meeting Saturday at Princeton Porsche to get teched and Dan said that they hoped to accommadate more entries. It also can't hurt to mention that you would like your VIR instructor, Alex Hiletag, to instruct you. |
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scwaters Member
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Thaks, just e-mailed him. |
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Darren Addict 
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Registered  Can I still jump??? |
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bobt993 Addict
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I will register to help the instructor list. Hope that gets you in. |
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bobt993 Addict
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NOOOOOOOOOOO Darren ! BTW, Larry had needle bearings. Last edited on Sun Mar 29th, 2009 01:01 am by bobt993 |
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scwaters Member
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Thanks, hopefully it will. |
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scwaters Member
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BOBT993 - thanks it did the trick. I'm in and looking forward to it! |
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smankow Addict 
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bobt993 wrote: BTW, Larry had needle bearings. is that contagious? |
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bobt993 Addict
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If assembling your trans/engine makes others do it too? Then it is. |
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Darren Addict
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Back to topic, who's all going? This is my first event of the year so very much looking forward to it!!! |
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bobt993 Addict
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Going???? No fun without a front straight....... NJMP has been ordered by NJDOT to close the front straight until the "jump" as you call it can be sufficiently protected to avoid cars launching 4 wheels off the tarmac. Part of land lease excludes NJMP from participating in any and all aerial activities within 1000 yards of an operational airport (next door). They have connected the access road located at the bottom of the carousel back to the chicane in the meantime. (track length is about 1.2 miles then). Not sure how you pit in, but I guess the same place as before, but slowing down on the racing surface. I was lucky and ran the course two weeks ago. I wonder if this government trying to hard at doing nothing.  |
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ninjabones Addict
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I'll be there for the official unveiling of the new-and-improved #270. Bob, I hope you're kidding about the front straight being closed. |
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bobt993 Addict
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Bill Lehman Member
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Put on the new R888s, switched to track pads, changed brake fluid. Ran the car around the block to "heat cycle" the tires. Been on my bike, I'm ready to go. I changed the angle of my front splitter so I don't violate the new flying rules. See you at NJMP launch. |
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Sparticus913 Member
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bobt993 wrote:Going???? No fun without a front straight....... Is this Thunderbolt or Lightning? |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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bobt993 wrote: Going???? No fun without a front straight....... I hope this is an April fools joke. Last edited on Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 02:35 am by Brian Minkin |
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bobt993 Addict
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Did any of you listen to the dry land whale farming project on NPR yesterday? |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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bobt993 wrote: Did any of you listen to the dry land whale farming project on NPR yesterday? No Sorry I missed it as it sounds like a great hobby to take up. But then again when it comes to the State of New Jersey and rules anything is possible. |
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JeffConklin Addict
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I will be there. Excited to try out a few new minor improvements!!! Jeff |
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Darren Addict
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Oh no, battle of the 993's I see.... |
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bobt993 Addict
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where's yours Darren? You need yet another car. BTW, need to do that LF bearing. ................... |
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ninjabones Addict
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Darren wrote: Oh no, battle of the 993's I see.... Why don't we just reconfigure the RTR run groups: 1. 993 battle royale 2. All other wanna be's |
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AMoore Addict 
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dems fightin' words for my blazin' 964! |
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Phokaioglaukos Addict 
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Pete will let me in for Friday only, so I'll see you all there. |
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Sparticus913 Member
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AMoore wrote: dems fightin' words for my blazin' 964! I agree. We should include the 964's. |
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catchacab Addict 
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Sparticus913 wrote:AMoore wrote:dems fightin' words for my blazin' 964! They did give us our engine block. |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Be there on Friday. Does someone have some video of lightening??? I haven't been able to find any. |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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Here are a couple of laps of Lightning http://www.vimeo.com/1342799 http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A-few-laps-at-New-Jersey_171751.htm |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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Mark Fox wrote:
Friday will be on Thunderbolt. |
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Phokaioglaukos Addict
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Brian, did they swap the schedule? |
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bobt993 Addict
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I don't think so. Mark will just be on the wrong track, likely with a bunch of motorcycles. LOL |
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Phokaioglaukos Addict
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Friday is Lightning according to the Schattenbaum web site. |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Thanks for the video Brian. As far as I know Friday is at lightening, but I will email Pete to confirm. |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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I have not looked at their web site in a while. The original posting was Lightning Thursday and Thunderbolt Friday. I guess I should take another look. |
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George3 Addict 
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bobt993 wrote: Going???? No fun without a front straight....... Is this for real? The front straight is closed????????? Even so, that bump was a clusterf**k and was a direct result of of several people crashing or breaking parts that later caused crashes. Who's got the info? |
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Phokaioglaukos Addict
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April Fool's day. |
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George3 Addict
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Got me. |
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smankow Addict
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now we know that George is a natural blonde. |
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bobt993 Addict
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George , consult your attorney next time. Now you owe Chris a retainer fee. |
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scwaters Member
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What's with Green/Yellow and no Blue? |
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George3 Addict
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bobt993 wrote: George , consult your attorney next time. Now you owe Chris a retainer fee. I am a part time practicing attorney. George Busch, Esq. Attachment: George Bush.jpg (Downloaded 55 times) Last edited on Sun Apr 5th, 2009 06:22 pm by George3 |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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scwaters wrote: What's with Green/Yellow and no Blue? Schattenbaum uses a different color scheme for their DE's. Begining instruced student Green, Advancing instructed student Yellow and Blue for their group is the 1st level of Solo. Blue will run with White for this event. |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Friday is at Lightening, but Chris and I will watch the rest of you try to keep up with the bikes at Thunderbolt |
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scwaters Member
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I've got a VIP suite/garage @ Thunderbolt for Thursday & Friday. Anyone need a place to cool off/warm up, catch some TV or shower look me up. #813 silver cayman |
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Darren Addict
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This was a great event! Great to see you RTR guys there. This was my first event with the Shattenbaum Region and I really enjoyed it. It was very laid back. My 996 was working really well -- especially in the Lightbulb. This was also my first event at Lightning and I was pleasantly suprised! I expected something similar to Jefferson Circuit and instead found it's a first-class track -- very busy, very technical, and a lot of fun! IMHO, there are no reasons now to do either Pocono or Jefferson. On down the slippery slope -- I think my 996 is going full race. I took out the carpet and passenger seat prior to the event since Bob T. shed 200 lbs (felt like I had to compensate Now I think I'm ditching the PSS9 and MPSC and going KW and Hoosiers.It was interesting that the H class PCA racing cars I would crush at Thunderbolt and I was running right there with them at Lightning. I was extremely impressed with Terry's driving -- he was one of the fastest cars out there. Here's my best laps from each track: Thunderbolt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYUKMhqbHmY Lightning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrFvHA9zI9I |
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John_Janick Member
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Another great event... I can safely say the RTR 993 showing did the club proud. |
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Terry Addict 
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Thanks, Darren - I appreciate the kind words. my car was just cookin' on that track. |
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ninjabones Addict
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John_Janick wrote: Another great event... I had an absolute blast. We had five very evenly matched 993s battling in the white run group. Couldn't have asked for better weather, despite the forecast for rain on Friday. We didn't miss a single session over the two days (10 runs, with nearly 4 hours of track time). Schattenbaum put on a very nice and extremely friendly event. It was my first time at Lightning... very busy course... elevation changes, crazy fast...no time to relax. I think I might like it even more than T-bolt. |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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I also had a great time at this event. I agree with Glen that I prefer Lightning over Thunderbolt but they are both fun and challenging tracks. This 993 kept up the RTR image in the red run group. Sorry I missed the last run on friday due to brakes being cooked. I would have liked to mix it up with the other RTR guys in Black and White. |
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Sparticus913 Member
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It was great to meet a few RTR members. Looking forward to running with the Spec 993 white group at future events. Last edited on Sun Apr 12th, 2009 03:34 am by Sparticus913 |
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Phokaioglaukos Addict
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The expanded passing in Red was usful, but not all that exciting. I hope PCA adopts this generally. |
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Darren Addict
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Phokaioglaukos wrote: The expanded passing in Red was usful, but not all that exciting. I hope PCA adopts this generally. We've been doing this in NASA for years. "Extended Passing" as they were calling it, is allowing passing anywhere on the track WITH a point-by. This was only in the instructor group. Here are a couple of examples of how this works and why it's fun. I also think it does one really important thing to actually help the safety level which is reducing congestion. Both cars have to agree to make this work -- the car being passed has to give a signal and the passing car has to agree to take it. If either person doesn't want to take/allow the pass then it doesn't happen -- no one is being forced to do this. In this first clip I take an offline pass going into T1. Of course since I'm offline I'm a little slower through the turn and the guy I passed is online and carrying more speed. On corner exit I gave him a signal to repass if he can do it, and he does! I slowed down a little too much -- in a racing situation I would have tried to block the repass (esp since I have more HP than him if I'm blocking his line I can pull away on exit) -- in this situation it's more fun to let him repass! http://www.mingis.com/misc/H%20Car%20Pass%20Repass.wmv The next clip is a little different. The driver of the cup car behind me is obviously faster and he sets up going into T1 like he is going to take the apex from me. I know he isn't going to do this -- but I give him a point-by and he takes it! I take the turn apexing a car width or so of the normal apex (because there will be a car there) and the whole thing goes very smoothly. http://www.mingis.com/misc/Cup%20Car%20Pass.wmv In both of these situations I knew the other guys were racers and used to taking passes offline. I was also confident in my own ability to still go reasonably fast offline. IMHO, anyone in the instructor group should be more than confident in their abilities to be able to do this. |
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bobt993 Addict
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Phokaioglaukos wrote: The expanded passing in Red was usful, but not all that exciting. I hope PCA adopts this generally. Chris, your unfortunately ruined by racing now. Point-by's are just not the same anymore. |
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Phokaioglaukos Addict
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First race of the year is MARRS 1 at Summit Point next weekend. I cannot wait! The expanded passing helped move us along. I do hope it becomes standard. |
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Terry Addict
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One consequence is that the passing car is now often in the marbles and has less grip. So now you are off line and have less grip so must be very aware of your car's attitude. This adds a lot of interest (in a good way) and adds a lot of tire snot (not as good). I would be in favor of making the change generally applicable. BTW, any comments on the car to car contact? |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Agreement with all of the above. What a great day for shaking off the rust since November and braking with my right foot for a change. After a couple of sessions and a wheel change I couldn't shake the rear thump I was experiencing. I am guessing axle bearing or wheel bearing. Same sound as Brian M had at last years WGI Zone 1. I got down for Friday for my first experience with Lightening and it's a very fun track. Hope I didn't hold anyone up. Terry and Darren were very hooked up. What times were you running?Because of the greater technical sections I feel it is not comparable to thunderbolt, both fun but different animals. I would estimate it is about 60 percent of what Mid Ohio provides and a lot closer. It also seems to be less aggressive on tires than Thunderbolt. Although someone in our group destroyed a Hoosier like I have never seen before. (Hugh circumferential bubble and I would guess belt failure) I know he drives hard by nature and don't know how aggresive he may hve been throwing it into corners. As far as open passing it should have been adopted long ago. While it may not be much different, it does help to prevent getting held up for multiple laps and both tracks and SP can be prone to getting heavily bogged down. |
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opus Member
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I have driven Thunderbolt and Lightning only a couple of days each. As a beginner, I thought before I'll like Thunderbolt better. But, it seems to me Lightning has better flow especially turns 2 to 4 (right, right, left). |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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Terry wrote: BTW, any comments on the car to car contact? Both drivers have their own version of the incident. The cup car driver says he got a passing signal separate from the one given to the 993. The Boxster driver says he only gave one signal. Regardless the Boxster driver should have been aware of both cars behind him and made sure he knew where they were before turning in. It was not because of extended passing. It would have happened under standard passing rules. I did not see the cup car but the damage on the Boxster was fortunately minimal. |
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Darren Addict
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I disagree. It was clearly the second passing car's fault. The damage on the Boxster was behind the door so the passing car should have given up the pass and been aware enough to avoid contact -- whether he got a signal or not! |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Agreed. The second passing car put himself in a position to be taken out! |
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Terry Addict
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About half a lap before the incident, I gave Hoyt (the 993) a pass and never saw the Cup car glued to his bumper (both were white) until he was alongside of me. I then speeded up and was not far behind them when the incident occurred. I will tell you I only gave one signal. I doubt very much that the Boxter signalled twice, for the simple reason that he never had time to do so. The Cup driver was damned if he was going to lose contact with the 993 and that, very simply, was the story. |
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Darren Addict
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opus wrote: I have driven Thunderbolt and Lightning only a couple of days each. As a beginner, I thought before I'll like Thunderbolt better. But, it seems to me Lightning has better flow especially turns 2 to 4 (right, right, left). They are both a lot of fun for sure. It's really fun to come out of that lightbulb at 100+ mph! The DE line through 2-4 is really rewarding, very smooth. Interestingly though I found I could go faster by muscling my way through that section. The key to that DE line is to take that first right hand apex about a car width off, and then it's pretty smooth with a big constant radius though 2 and 3. 4 is sort of a throw-away though, so I think it might be better to maximize the speed going into the T4 apex and sacrificing the exit speed since it's slow anyway. In the instructor group everyone had their own line |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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Darren wrote: I disagree. It was clearly the second passing car's fault. The damage on the Boxster was behind the door so the passing car should have given up the pass and been aware enough to avoid contact -- whether he got a signal or not! I am not passing blame on the Boxster driver. I just think if you are driving in the Red group that you need to be scanning your mirrors and know the position of all the cars behind you. I have been in this situation numerious times where I did not give the second and sometimes the third car a signal and they took a late pass. We had a former chief instrutor in RTR who I would have had contact with more then once if I was not very aware of faster cars comming up on me and disapearing from my rear view mirror. Agressive driving like the cup car exhibited is not appropriate in DE but there will be drivers like him in the fast groups so you need to be aware of what is going on around you. |
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Darren Addict
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Sure, I agree with that, they both could have prevented this. |
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Sparticus913 Member
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Brian Minkin wrote:Darren wrote:I disagree. It was clearly the second passing car's fault. The damage on the Boxster was behind the door so the passing car should have given up the pass and been aware enough to avoid contact -- whether he got a signal or not! I am new to this forum and new to PCA DE's. However, I have DE experience with other organizations and have to agree with Brian. I witnessed a fair amount of aggressive driving in the white group and I was guilty at times. However, if a driver is promoted to a solo group they should have the skills to be aware of their surroundings and the cars behind and in front of them as well as on side of them. I noticed too many drivers in the white group who did not consistently demonstrate track etiquette, car awareness and point by rules. There was a certain driver who would give a point by, proceed to drift in the direction he pointed and then drag race the car he gave the point by to. Unbelievable! But as I stated, I am new to PCA DE's so I am learning as well. PS Brian, you rock man! I watched several of your sessions and you've given me inspiration and made me realize that a well driven 993 can hang with the big boys. Great driving! |
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Mark Fox Addict
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I would agree with the line through T-4. In watching video of you (and I am on the same line) coming out of T-5 past the curbijg on the right, I am wondering if we stay out longer (vs slightly fighting the car back to the right) if it won't give a straighter approach to T-6??? So did you and Terry not get any times? |
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Terry Addict
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I ran a bunch of 1:15.0s but then corded 3 tires and couldn't figure why I was driving harder but going slower. I think I could have shaved off another .5 seconds that day but I am not complaining at all. |
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Darren Addict
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Mark Fox wrote: I would agree with the line through T-4. In watching video of you (and I am on the same line) coming out of T-5 past the curbijg on the right, I am wondering if we stay out longer (vs slightly fighting the car back to the right) if it won't give a straighter approach to T-6??? That might be true if I'm understanding where you mean. I think you're saying after the blind apex to stay left a little longer and do a straight line to the braking zone for the next left hander. I'll have to try that line next time and see.... I didn't know lap times until I reviewed the video. Mostly low 1:16's at Lightning, with PSS9 and MPSC tires. |
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Brian Minkin Administrator
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For lightning on friday my best lap was 1:16:7 but mostly 1:17:2 to 1:17:5. 1:15:0 is really cooking Terry. |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Darren, Yes I am refering to to the exit past the curbing on the right following T-5. Staying out later will probably give you better approach into T-6. Tremper and the wing men were doing this. Also Hoyt was driving well into the light bulb before initiating turn in. I never did get the braking right upon entry. I had one run in the 17's handful in the 18's. Cleaning up the entry into the light bulb and the extra speed down the front straight is probalbly worth 2 sec. |
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Terry Addict
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Mark, you weren't poking along at all on exiting the Lightbulb and I think it is unlikely you will get 2 seconds without rocket packs. I agree with a high and late entry but I think pretty much everyone was doing this by the end of the day. My problem (here weep crocodile tears) was that I couldn't get on full power coming out of the Lightbulb until the car was getting straight - otherwise I would push out to track edge and beyond. But I think that is the way the track is designed. |
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Darren Addict
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Mark Fox wrote: Darren, I don't know -- that's Tremper a couple of cars in front of me and I don't see him gaining ground on me there. They do beat me through 2-4 though, any right-left transition I get killed with the PSS9 vs real suspensions. The lightbulb isn't that difficult -- there are really 3 components -- entry point, entry speed, and the point where you go full throttle. The difference between a bad and good line is probably 10 car lengths by T1, less than a second I think. Basically it's 10 extra mph faster everywhere from the entry-point of the lightbulb all the way to the end of the front straight. Suprisingly I was going a little faster there (142 mph) than I was on the front straight at Thunderbolt. I hit the 'bulb perfectly one time and pushed all the way out and about 2" over the track-out curbing -- Pechstein was behind me -- it was a little too aggressive for DE though I had to back it down.I really want to do a track walk there -- I want to see how soft or bumpy the dirt is at the track-out point from the 'bulb. It's also really suprising that T6 (left hander) you can see a huge hill from the paddock that you just plain can't see driving the track. |
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Mark Fox Addict
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Darren Wrote:We were talking about that on Friday. I am still impressed by the elevation change at VIR with T-15 -T-16 when looking at the track compared to being in the car. As far as lightbulb I would also likel to walk it. I looked at video again last night saw there entry heading toward the tire marks where the car went off into the grass. From film I am wondering if you could stay way out to the right on exit of 6, arcing it back to the far left for an arcing approach into lightbulb. Of course speed and other factors may not allow this, but Pete said Hoyt was single apexing that section. |
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Terry Addict
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Lap times are funny. I downloaded my Traqmate and looked my single prior day at Lightning- almost .5 seconds faster last fall! So much depends on the day, the track, maybe air density... |
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MikeKling Member
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I throughly enjoed Schattembaum's event. I do have to say that RTR's safety tech is second to none. I experienced a through check all three days with our club at my first event last fall. Schattenbaum only did a cursory check the second day. This is not meant as a criticsm, only a note of the how proud we should be over our club. Looking forward to Poke your nose (Pocono). Mike |
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John_Janick Member
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...... Last edited on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 06:46 pm by John_Janick |
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bobt993 Addict
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Terry, the track has likely settled in and is a little slower. The club race times when it first opened were very fast. I ran some 14's a week ago my first time on the track using MPSC's. I think there is another sec in more seat time and a little more using a R6's. My car is really hooked up suspension now, just need to get the engine 100%. |
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