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NOGO65
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Hey gang,
Id like to take this oppurtunity to introduce myself as well as share an experience that I had over the last weekend that should remind all of us what a great group of people we have in our club.
First off, Im the guy who's trying to keep pace with all you guys/gals while driving the white Nissan GT-R. (Please hold all your' boos until the end). I spent two years following you guys to the track as a spectator before taking the leap.
My first event was at the Glen, then Pocono followed by Thunderbolt to close out the season. Needless to say, I've been bitten hard by the "bug" and spring 2010 can't get here fast enough. With a long winter ahead, I was pleasantly surprised when my brother-in-law, and one of my instructors, Steve Hoagland called and asked if I would be interested in running DE @ NJMP with him for a two day weekend with another PCA club. Stupid question.
At this point I want to be clear that Im not bashing another club. Instead, I'm giving heavy props to the RTR gang for doing what I would consider to be a superior job. I'm positive I havn't even met all of you yet who keep this club rolling and please forgive me if I dont get all your' names right.
A couple of times that made me shake my head during the weekend were as follows:
Picture Paul running grid tech and after not being able to open the hood on the GT-R, he justs waives me on through. (The hood latch is nothing special.)
Picture Myles giving his morning driver's meeting and asking how many "green" first time track people were there and about 10-15 people raised their hands but he doesn't bring up the different flags or their meanings. It wasn't brought up in the classroom either, not one time! I was there. (Huh?)
Picture getting about half the point byes that you deserved (in two different run groups,) or instructors having to give out point byes from the right hand side of the car. I'm as patient as the next guy but it was becoming blatantly obvious that others were just not aware as to what was going on around them.
Picture an Instructor, I repeat, an INSTRUCTOR, coming out of the pits and basically left turning over the blend line infront of Steve and about 5-6 other cars flying down on him after turn one at Lightning at a high rate of speed. I understand accidents or mistakes can and will happen but sheer fear should keep you as low as you can get coming out of the pits. No? Alot of luck and Steve's driving abiltiies were the only thing that kept the GT-R from sliding into the wall at about 100mph while going backwards after he left the surface to avoid killing the guy.
All in all, it was an awesome weekend but I came away with a new found appreciation for the safety and organization that our club has.
To all of you who make it happen, I thank you. To those of you who I havn't met yet, I look forward to meeting you next year. Just don't hold the GT-R thing against me too much.
Jim Zornes
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JeffConklin
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 10:45 pm |
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You only think you appreciate RTR - until you go to events with some other regions. Some regions are just as good as RTR, but others, like what you experienced, are very disappointing. RTR runs a great program, and puts out some great drivers.
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95 993 Polar Silver
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Darren
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:28 pm |
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NOGO65 wrote: Just don't hold the GT-R thing against me too much.
We like the GT-R!
There is a lot of variation between clubs -- they all have their own culture. RTR is more welcoming than other PCA regions for non-Porsches. When the economy was better I don't think the other clubs even let you run a non-Porsche.
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Darren
2002 996 NASA GTS4 #00
1992 Integra NASA PTE #43
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fasthonda
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:35 pm |
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hi!
i've instructed for 'scads' of other clubs; too numerous to mention. that being said --
my personal opinion is that RTR has the best program (and i am really nonbiased; i don't own a P car!).
enjoy that GT-R. an amazing car. no need to do much to it, other than some safety equipment. that is a balls out super car! huge thumbs up for using it like it was meant to be used!!!
todd
ReidSpeed
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Todd Reid
ReidSpeed, Inc. - Professional Driver Coaching -
Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, or Racer....
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Brian Minkin
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 12:13 am |
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Jim,
I had a couple of sessions when I took students out in your run group and you are driving that GT-R very well. Look forward to seeing it back with RTR next year.
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1995 993 - Track car
1977 911 Widebody 3.6 - Track car
2002 Boxster - Her car but I get to drive it
2008 Nissan Maxima - Her daily driver
2006 Ford F-250 crew cab diesel - Porsche Suppport Vehicle & Tow truck
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AMoore
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 01:09 pm |
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Brian Minkin wrote: Jim,
I had a couple of sessions when I took students out in your run group and you are driving that GT-R very well. Look forward to seeing it back with RTR next year.
I hear that car drives itself well! Just kidding. 
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Aaron Moore
2003 Corvette Z06
2001 Volvo C70 ragtop (for the wife)
1971 Schwinn Peapicker with full suspension - all original and one mean ride!
Traxxas Revo Monster Truck 1/10 scale Nitro
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NOGO65
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 02:27 pm |
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Ok, looking back on my post, maybe it came across more like bashing the other club some but that wasn't my intention.
I'm sure 100% of you guys have more seat time then I and you may have more experience with other regions also. Just like anything else, I'm sure there's the good groups and not so good groups.
Personally as a newbie, Im glad Paul is double checking that everything is buttoned up under the hood before we go out. I know that my stuff is ready to go before I get out there but I dont know if the guy infront of me is.
Also, Myles going through the flags for the benefit of everyone's safety is a great thing. You never know, especially in the lower run groups that I'm currently in, if the people you are on the track with understand what they mean.
I think a safe attitude during DE events should filter down from the top. Instructors all the way down to newcomers. I'm glad I'm in one of the "good groups."
Darren, Todd and Brian: Thanks for the kind words about the car. About 95% of the compliments I receive about driving, is totally the car. I know this, my ego knows this also. Honestly, point the car where it needs to be, fire and hang on.
I know some people can get somewhat "territorial" when it comes to vehicle brands, clubs, etc. and it's good to know that there are some of you guys who could give a rats tucas about it.
To me, it's more about the people and you could be getting around Thunderbolt in a school bus for all I care, as long as it is safe and fast, it's ok by me.
See you all....not soon enough. Be safe.
JZ
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Phokaioglaukos
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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Reminds me of my experience. First year I drove only with RTR. Second year I went with another PCA region to a track I had been to before. The difference in culture, practice and, yes, even safety, was massive. I didn't go back to that region until I was in Black.
We have a fantastic DE program with lots of dedicated volunteers who work hard at running safe and educational events for everyone, from the "never, never" first time student to the experienced instructors. One cannot say enough good things about this crew.
I hope this coming year we can take some of what has made the DE program so successful and spread it to some of our other activities.
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Chris
PCA Nationally Trained DE Instructor #200810247
2005 996 GT3 Seal Grey/Black
2006 BMW E91 325xi Sports Wagon
2005 BMW E46 330Ci Convertible
2000 Aprilia RS250
1994 Ducati 900SS
Gone: 1993 Mazda Miata SCCA SSM race car
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Terry
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 12:50 am |
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| I was there as well. I like the people who run that program but concur that there is a general laxity which seems to pervade the event. I hear that some people think that RTR is "too tight-ass" but I think there is a real benefit to a higher level of discipline. While we can have our internal disagreements about protocol, you just won't see vague and ambiguous point-bys, instuctors giving signals, slow cars holding up the entire green group, etc in RTR. I'm not sure that the carnage was directly attributable to the approach (we sure have our own share in our events) but it may have.
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Brian Minkin
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 01:15 am |
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| One thing that has always bothered me at this other regions events is that the car gets a sticker as to run group. There is no control to make sure the driver of the car is in that run group. In fact I believe a blue driver was out in red this past weekend.
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1995 993 - Track car
1977 911 Widebody 3.6 - Track car
2002 Boxster - Her car but I get to drive it
2008 Nissan Maxima - Her daily driver
2006 Ford F-250 crew cab diesel - Porsche Suppport Vehicle & Tow truck
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NOGO65
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 01:29 am |
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Brian,
The exact same thing had Steven and me shrugging our shoulders after the driver's meeting on Saturday morning.
The car is stickered but the driver had no real resposibility to show what run group they were supposed to be in.
Since the GT-R was being driven by Steve also, it had a blue run group sticker on it as well as a red run group sticker on it. I don't think anyone would have questioned me if I decided to go out in the instructor group.
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michael lang
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 02:16 pm |
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Terry wrote: I hear that some people think that RTR is "too tight-ass"
Those people are obviously not familiar with any Potomac events (particularly social).
I was at Shenandoah this past spring with another club which had placed me in an advanced group (I think by accident but I know they had spaces to fill). I asked the chief instructor to move me down to novice and if there was no space there put me in intermediate. He would not. So I went out for a couple of laps and realized I was way in over my head and came back to the pits. Since therre didn't appear to be any organization as far as checking wristbands at the start of each session, I waited until the next novice session and went out. After that I went out for the intermediate session which I blended into the rest of the weekend. I have not nor do I think I will register with that group again.
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mike
89 Carrera
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betegh9
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Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 12:17 am |
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The car should have no bearing as to the run group. If my "64 VW beetle passes inspection, I should be able to drive it in the RED run group............ as long as I have the red wrist band.
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JUST CALL NICK
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Gene
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 06:25 pm |
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I think RTR runs a tight ship, my only beef is the torque squad at tech. I just changed to my track tires, I promise I torqued them, with a torque wrench. I don't need them over-torqued.
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George3
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 06:38 pm |
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RTR has the best Tech Inspection team of all the driving clubs. They are very thorough in order to maintain "your" safety. However, I have seen all too many cars roll into the Tech line with most of the lugs soft.
It is not the job of the Tech line to torque the wheels on every car. That is the responsibility of the driver, and it's good that you are conscientious to self check the torque on your own wheels.
I have seen ( and have video footage) of a car pitting out at Summit Point and not going more than 500 feet before one of his wheels flies off and goes bouncing into the grass. That's exactly what Tech is trying to prevent.
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Das Evo
My accelerator is stuck in Wide Open Throttle . . . But I'm not recalling it . . . I like it like that !!! 
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Gene
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 06:44 pm |
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Oh don't get me wrong it's a good idea, but sometimes they won't take no for an answer when you tell them you just did it not 10 minutes ago.
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George3
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 06:57 pm |
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| I can't promise anything, but maybe having a chat with the Chief ahead of time would help. Generally, 911's are torqued to 94 ft/lbs, and specialty cars we ask.
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Das Evo
My accelerator is stuck in Wide Open Throttle . . . But I'm not recalling it . . . I like it like that !!!
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Wally
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 08:44 pm |
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Gene wrote: Oh don't get me wrong it's a good idea, but sometimes they won't take no for an answer when you tell them you just did it not 10 minutes ago.
Gee, I'm sorry, forgive me for being a skeptic. Most of the safety issues with drivers and their cars over the years have been with experienced people who prepare their own cars. I've been told that as soon as the brake pads are metal to metal I'll change them. Oh, is that a tire cord showing through, just give me a tech sticker and I'll change the tire later. I set the torque wrenches each morning to 94 ft/lbs which is the setting for Porsche's and most other cars. I instruct the crew to check only two nuts and if they are at the proper torque, move on. If not check each nut to insure that the wheel is properly tightened. If you require a lower torque setting, tell them, they will lower the wrench to your spec. How good is your torque wrench? How old is it? Is it in spec? We replace our wrenches every few years to insure that they are as close to spec as can be. As I see it, you have three options. Ignore tech all-together and tell pit out you checked the car yourself. Ask Myles for dispensation (he ran tech for several years). Or volunteer to be on tech crew. Not just one morning, but each day you are at the track. The pay is not good, but the beer is free at the end of the day and I take the regulars to Hooters for lunch in early December. Plus I let you tech your own car.
Understand, we treat every driver and every car the same, we want to insure that every one has a safe and fun day. If you have a particular gripe, or feel you are being treated unfairly, just come to the head of the tech line and talk to me. I'm always there.
Paul
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betegh9
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 08:58 pm |
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Gene wrote:
I think RTR runs a tight ship, my only beef is the torque squad at tech. I just changed to my track tires, I promise I torqued them, with a torque wrench. I don't need them over-torqued.
Gene, I know you mean well and you do everything possible to go thru tech easily, and it is redundant to check the torque of your wheels since you have done them 10 minutes earlier. BUT I've seen guys mount their track tires on the car while yapping away with his or her friends while doing the work, and guess what?............ Yep! Going to tech without ever torquing the lugs. This guy was caught on tech line. His answer: "Thanks, I forgot." Better be redundant than SORRY!  
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JUST CALL NICK
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